Friday, October 07, 2005

Here's an 80/160 hand I played last night that I thought was interesting. I think my play on every street is debateable, even preflop (although I think preflop is the least interesting street). I'll give a brief description of the other players, but otherwise I'll give the hand without comment, and see what people think.

UTG is the worst player in the game, bar none. The BB and MP are pretty bad, and the button is a bit of LAG. Collectively, they are the four worst players in the game; they are bad to the point that besides BB, none should even be playing 15/30. BB, UTG, and MP pretty much bet their hands, while the button likes to bluff and take stabs at pots.

I'm in the SB. UTG limps, MP limps, button limps, I complete with Jc9d. BB checks.

Flop (5 players): 8c 7s 5c

I check, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, button bets. I raise. Sb folds, UTG cold-calls, button calls.

Turn (3 players): (8c 7s 5c) 3d

I bet. UTG calls. Button agonizes for a few seconds and folds.

River (2 players): (8c 7s 5c 3d) 6s

I bet. UTG raises. I call.

UTG shows Qh4h and MHIG.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

did you entertain the notion of three betting him on the river?

Do players normally play queen-rag suited utg in 80/160? I need to adjust my game...


10:13 AM  
Blogger Stacy said...

Q rag suited is a monster with someone like Eric in the game, who we all know gives tons of action if you hit. Maniac.

Against solid, thinking players, making a CR bluff with overs on this raggy flop out of the blind is good stuff. Against morons who play things like Q4s, maybe not such a great idea.

What was your plan on the river if you hadn't gotten there? And once you did get there, why did you only call the raise? Were you afraid of T9?

This hand doesn't feel well adjusted to the players involved.

11:30 AM  
Anonymous Evan said...

A three-bet is debatable, but I've gotten much less aggressive on the river lately.

3:23 PM  
Anonymous Evan said...

Actually, thinking about this more, I'd probably 3bet. If he's got T9, you'll lose an extra bet, and it's a definite possibility given the way he played the hand.
He may in a blue moon fold a 9 if he just suffered a bad beat or something. But more often than he has T9, and enough to make up for the extra bet that you pay off when he caps and has you beat, he'll have a 4.

My initial inclination was to 3bet before I saw the results. Then I saw the results and started thinking maybe not.

I'm glad that this is the closest I've come to playing poker in a long time.

3:28 PM  
Blogger eric said...

Do players normally play queen-rag suited utg in 80/160?

Most definitely not. This guy was a godsend. I couldn't even keep track of how much money he lost to the table. I mean, he CCed two bets with the dummy-end of a gutshot straight draw and a flush draw already out there, for example. I wanted to marry him, I was so in love.

Anyways, I think people are being a bit results oriented.

did you entertain the notion of three betting him on the river?


why did you only call the raise?


Actually, thinking about this more, I'd probably 3bet.

On a 875 board, please tell me what hand someone is cold-calling a check-raised flop, calling the turn and suddenly raising the 6 river that I beat. I mean, not knowing the results of this particular hand.

I can tell you lots of hands that I tie with. I can tell you one hand that beats the snot out of me (T9). I have a hard time coming up with any hands I could beat, even given I knew he was a bad player.

Remember the description I gave:

BB, UTG, and MP pretty much bet their hands

He's not raising two-pair here with a four-straight out there.

Anyways, I think the most interesting streets were the flop and turn, which Stacy touched on.

6:50 PM  
Blogger d said...


Please explain your reasons for the flop CR. What are the benefits here? I can see this being a better choice on a 3 handed flop or if BB, UTG and/or MP are tight enough to fold hands that have you reverse dominated or A,K,Q,T high.

The turn bet seem standard given the opponents and the board.


7:28 PM  
Anonymous Peter B said...


I like the CR on the flop. Double-belly buster plus overcards, plus the chance that this way you might push out JQ and JK -- hands that may well have called for a single bet.

If we are up against a rational opponent, his raise on the river looks like a nine or nine-ten or 66. You can't three-bet the river here.

Once you have check-raised the flop,the continuation on the turn seems fairly standard to me, unless you are up against stageringly observant and aggressive opponents (in which case I might go for a check-raise again).

The major interest in the hand appears to me to bet that UTG is plainly certifiable. :-)


12:32 PM  
Blogger eric said...

Peter b pretty much nailed why I CRed the flop.

After the hand, the button was aghast. "You're on a draw, why are you driving everyone out?"

And the answer to that is that I thought my equity was pretty damn high against someone who very likely has absolutely nothing. If I can drive out others and get it heads up with the button, I can either get him to lay down his nothing (which may beat my nothing) and if not I have tons of outs to his random two cards.

This isn't a play that I think would work very often, but the three other players in the pot would have bet pretty much anything if they'd had it, so I was pretty confident they'd fold for two bets.

I'm surprised people think the bet on the turn is standard. I haven't improved, and there's another player who CCed two bets, who doesn't seem like he's going anywhere.

I did it because the 3 most likely helped no one, so the button still almost definitely had nothing, especially since he didn't three-bet the flop. As for the UTG calling station, well, that one was more player specific: what I didn't mention was that he had no problem folding rivers. He just had a problem folding before the river. Given that he didn't bet anything, I could confidently put him on some random couple of cards (most likely a 6, perhaps a 9, but obviously not both) and just keep betting, figuring are that chances are he'd miss whatever random hand he thought he was drawing too.

After the button folded, I was betting the river no matter what card came, based on my read on UTG's play. It may be a bit results oriented, but you can see why it would work given the hand he had--if he hit a Q, he was calling. A 4 he'd probably lay down since I'd seen him lay down what was obviously decent hands on the river to scary boards before, and a low-middle pair on a four-straight board is not a good hand. A 6, obviously he thinks he's good, but isn't. Any other card he's completely unimproved and folding. So even though he was "ahead," I pretty much had him drawing to three outs. Ok, call it 4.5 outs since maaaaybe he calls the river if he hits a 4.

FWIW, that's fewer outs than I gave him. On the turn I figured I might have only a 40-50% chance of taking the pot with a river bet, but given the size of the pot obviously I would have to try.

Anyways, so now that everyone knows so intimately how I play, don't come by the 80 games, all right?

9:56 PM  
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