Tuesday, August 30, 2005

Nothing but low-limit silliness this post.

So me and a buddy decide to do some more low-limit donking, and decide the 2/4 at the Imperial Palace is the place to do it. $3/hour in comps is enough to convince me.

Once again I start out trying to be good, but end up straddling every time I'm UTG and raising with the hammer. I don't think I three-bet with much worse than 65o, though, so I wasn't being that bad.

I created a good image for myself, so that people kept trying to pay off my legitimate hands. But the darndest thing is they kept hitting! KK went down in flames at least five times. Top-two lost to runner-runner more times than I can count.

All told, I played 6 hours and lost--brace yourself--$400. At two freakin' four! That's 100BBs in 6 hours, for a lovely winrate of -16.67BB/hr. That's gotta be some kind of record.

I also somehow managed to get into another grudge match with a dealer. Now, I have to say that I always treat dealers wonderfully. I tip on every pot, I never berate them or get mad at them or anything. Hell, they screw up tremendously at times and I'm the most understanding guy at the table. Yet, here I am with yet another grudge match.

Okay, that all said, this one I kind of understand. So it's 2/4 and so they change out a dollar to quarters since they take rake in .50 increments. Well, when I was winning big pots, I'd grab a dollar chip and tip that. But when I won a small pot, say $10-12 and so there were still quarters in there from the partial rake taken, I would tip $0.50. Okay, okay, call me a cheapskate, but c'mon it's two freakin' four, it was a twenty second hand, a tiny pot, I'm getting brutalized enough by the rake, I'm not going to be tipping another 10% of my pot.

But the point is I was still tipping. And I repeat, I was tipping $1 on the decently large pots.

Anyways, this one dealer seemed to take offense to my fifty cent tips. David his name was. He dealt to us probably about four downs. He'd deal the cards, but only throw them halfway to me. And if anyone has been to the Imperial Palace, you know the tables are huuuge. So finally I tip him $0.50 on this tiny pot and he doesn't even take it. He leaves it in the middle of the table, for all to see, and goes on and deals the next hand, leaving the two quarters in the center of the table. People play their hands, and David just scoops the bets right into the center, with the fifty cents now part of that next pot.

So fine, if he doesn't want my tips, he won't get any. I won a good-sized pot and didn't tip him at all. So the next hand, he deals around and literally drops my cards right in front of him. Everyone else gets them flung perfectly to their waiting hands, and mine are like three feet away, practically on top of his chip rack.

"Uh, David, you gotta throw 'em a little farther."

He just smiles.

He normally pushed the pots completely over to the winner, but when I won another pot he just grabbed the portion of it on the far side of the table and pushed it over and just dropped it unceremoniously still like three feet away from me, still in a random spread out mess.

I would have complained, but fine I was tipping fifty cents, and he was finally done dealing, and he's like seventy fucking years old and dealing 2/4 poker, so I imagine his life isn't all that great to begin with.

But still, wow.

That does answer why I think that one dealer at the Wynn acted strangely towards me--I probably forgot to tip him on a hand.

I imagine being a dealer is stressful and annoying, and that's why I try to treat them all nicely, and always tip (my recent decision to do 0.50 on small pots at 2/4 notwithstanding). But still, if a dealer decides to be overtly rude to someone for not tipping, that just seems to exacerbate the problem. I mean, if someone simply forgot to tip on a pot, and then you treat him like dogshit, well do you think he's going to start tipping? Not at all--I sure wouldn't. And, in fact, others might see the treatment think the dealer is a prick and stop tipping themselves.

But fine, if that's how they get their jollies, so be it.

Oh well, no more soapboxing. Time for bed.


Anonymous Evan said...

I don't tip at all for small pots, and yet I usually get along pretty well with dealers.

Sounds like this guy is just a jerk.

11:10 PM  
Anonymous bil said...

Strangely enough, I just started reading your blog this week, right after I returned from Las Vegas, where I stayed and played at Bellagio. I'm a sucker for a blog that's well written with a bit of style--had I read before, I would have offered to buy you a drink or something when I was there. Oh well.

At Bellagio I encountered a dealer who refused to show a losing hand if it was mucked when another player asked to see it. A cranky old guy kept asking, kept getting turned down, and finally called over the floorman. Order was restored, but geez--isn't that day one at Dealer School? Day two, at the latest...

And I'd expect to see that at Luxor or somewhere cheesy, but Bellagio?

I'd love to know how often you sit down at 15/30 and find that it's playing about as tough as a 4/8 (as you related in an earlier post). I was itching to jump into the 15/30, but my friends are 4/8 or 8/16 kind of guys and didn't want to try the deep end of the pool (okay, okay--the somewhat less shallow end).

Thanks--keep up the interesting posts.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Aaron said...

Related to Bil's post, here are 2 articles on showing losing hands. I don't know that the Bellagio dealer was necessarily wrong.
Part I
Part II

8:23 AM  
Anonymous bil said...

Interesting articles, Aaron, although allowing muck-and-never-show would simply encourage collusion, it seems to me.

The "you can ask to see, but only if you don't abuse the privelege" rule seems arbitrary and difficult to enforce fairly.

Either way, the Bellagio house rule, as explained by the floorman, is "any hand that is live at the showdown can be seen on request."

Hey, speaking of CardPlayer, here's an interesting article which neatly goes over the issue our man threebet33 had with AK in a no limit game:

12:25 PM  
Blogger eric said...

Good to see I managed to play my AK correctly according to Matt. Although, it seems as though if you're up against a guy who isn't folding AK or any pocket pair, your equity ain't much. You're basically getting a coin flip (you're actually a slight dog) for the money already in the pot, half of which was yours to begin with. So basically, you're winning ever-so-slightly less than half of the blinds, which are $7. So a little more than $3. Whoop-dee-doo.

Of course, given that I'd already raised to $15, he'd reraised to $65, then there's $87 in the pot inlcuding the folded blinds, and so folding gets me zero, while going all-in against his additional $110, even if I know I'll be called by a range that is the slight favorite, gains me about $10. And if he has some chance of folding, it's even more.

All right, I'm ready. 10/20 NL, here I come!!

As for muck-and-no-show, the Mirage has a rule special to their 40 game where a player can refuse to show his cards at showdown. If Player A bets and Player B calls, then player A shows his cards and B wants to muck, but Player C asks to see them, Player B can refuse and they'll call the floor who'll make a decision. But basically, it seems to put the onus on Player C to provide a reason why the cards should be shown--if he legitimately thinks there was collusion going on, I assume the cards would be shown, but otherwise not.

I like that rule. The one pet peeve I have, that really annoys me more than anything, is the IWTSHH rule abused by players hand after hand just because they're curious and they can. Even if it's just once in a big hand, it bothers me. Nevermind the times I've see the big fish's garbage hand turned over (usually at the request of fish #2) where everyone knew big fish had random crap, anyways, so the only result is to embarass the fish, which is never a good thing.

8:15 PM  
Blogger eric said...


just saw this question:

I'd love to know how often you sit down at 15/30 and find that it's playing about as tough as a 4/8

When I used to regularly play the 15/30, it was almost always 4/8ish. The better players will be better, and the average player will be a little trickier, but often enough it's still six or seven people seeing a flop and very passive.

I haven't played in it since March, though (except for a round here or there while waiting for a 30 seat to open) but I can't imagine it's changed drastically.

I'd say if you have the bankroll and can beat the 4/8 and 8/16 without a problem--or 2/4 or 3/6 online--give it a shot.

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